Curse

Thorin · Dec 16, 2006, 02:07 PM // 14:07

I've been playing around with this skill a bit with my necro. Your minions can do some GREAT damage with +17 damage at 16 death. The problem I'm having is with my energy. I love to have 10 minions going at all times, like every MM should, but since this skill costs 10 energy to cast it kills me a bit. I like to keep myself healed instead of having the monk do it, so I bring heal area at 8 healing. That also costs 10 energy. I'm using Blood of the Master constantly to keep them alive, following with heal area. You would like to keep Order up a lot, but I can't seem to right now without costing myself a few minions.

This is my build.

Death 16
Soul Reaping 11
Heal 8

Animate Shambling Horror(maybe I should substitute this with Bone horror)
Animate Bone Fiend
Blood of the Master
Order of Undeath
Heal Area
Signet of Lost Souls
Rebirth Sig

I'm thinking that I will just not be able to use Order as much as I'd like to. Maybe just in some tough spots. Give me some suggestions if you'd like.

I have 50 energy by the way.

Carinae · Dec 16, 2006, 08:14 PM // 20:14

Here is my main MM build. I've run this all over NF, and it provides all the flexiblity a MM will need.

[skill]Signet of Lost Souls[/skill] [skill]Order of Undeath[/skill] [skill]Animate Shambling Horror[/skill] [skill]Animate Bone Fiend[/skill] [skill]Blood of the Master[/skill] [skill]Heal Area[/skill] [skill]Dark Bond[/skill] [skill]Vengeance[/skill]

Blood: 4 (3+1)
Death: 16 (12+3+1)
S.Rep: 12 (9 + 3) <- double superiors
Healing: 9

Order of Undeath is very manageable, but you have to really pay attention to your health. Make sure that before you cast it, you have Dark Bond up and Heal Area recharged and ready to go. You don't always need Heal Area, but often you do.

Signet of Lost Souls is honestly more there for emergency energy management than healing and I rarely use it. Typicall, I have maxed energy and no energy issues at all.

I often chain BotM, OoU and after about 3 seconds Heal Area. You don't need to keep OoU up all the time, I like to use it at the start of battles, and occasionally during battles to break the back of a stubborn mob. Very rarely, in tougher battles, I spam OoU to keep killing as fast as I can, but be very very careful. (The Battle of Turai's Procession)

The trick to energy management for a MM is to abuse the minion cap. When a MM reaches 10 minions, the effect from Soul Reaping doubles. Use that.

Here's what I do:

I start off using a 20/20 Bone Spiral and Bortak's Bone Cesta. This gives me 42 energy with 4 pips of energy regen and an extra 20% HCT right when I need it most...at startup time (under 10 minions)

As soon as I hit 10 minions, I swap Bortak's for Konruu's Fervor. This gives me an extra 15 energy so now I'm upto 57 energy (not counting Morale Bonuses) with 3 pips of regen. The lost pip is dwarfed by the double gains from SR and you now have a larger, more efficient energy pool. You can raise two Fiends from scratch and still be able to throw 2 BotM in a pinch.

If, after a battle, you have dropped below 10 minions, swap back to Bortak's.

Thorin · Dec 16, 2006, 08:32 PM // 20:32

I'll try this out Carinae. I mostly just need to practice using OoU more. I'm just so used to the ole Fleshy. I didn't really think about lowering my health much more than 1 superior death will do to you, but I can understand why. Undeath sacrafices what? About 6 or 7hp with you?

I use Ghial's Staff right now, but I'll look into getting those focuses. Thanks for the advice.

Side Note: Don't you just love Signet of Lost Souls?

I use it a good bit in my SS build, but like you said, it's rarely used in this build.

Carinae · Dec 16, 2006, 08:41 PM // 20:41

OoU costs me 8hp per hit.

The double superiors, and the high sac build really necessitates Dark Bond. Keep it up always. Refresh it right before battle.

With 1 sup rune, you'll have 455hp. So BotM (with 10 minions) costs 25% or 114hp. Having 8 in Healing, heals for 110hp, or basically a full heal. But with double superiors, you have 380hp and can shift another point into Healing. So now BotM (with 10 minions) costs 95hp and HA heals for 120hp. Greater efficiency FTW.

For more fun, run Olias as a second MM. Give him Ghials. This further increases the gains from SR by another 50%, but it doubles the sacrifice of BotM. Be Careful!!!

OoU only affects your minions so there's no penalty there.

Cathode_Reborn · Dec 17, 2006, 03:30 AM // 03:30

I go 16 Death, 14 Soul, 8 Wind prayers (sup Death + major Soul)

Order Of Undeath
Sig of lost souls
Animate bone fiend
Blood of the master
Dwayna's touch
Infuse condition
Faithful and Watchful Intervention

The point is to keep Dark Bond and Faithful/Watchful Intervention up. At 8 points in Wind prayers, Dwayna's touch heals for 117 with 3 enchantments. Faithful/Watchful don't actually do anything but help Dwayna's touch heal you more. Infuse condition does the same, but makes you immune to conditions also. I put in Faithful/Watchful intervention cause they last for such a long time so you don't have to keep reapplying them often. Costs 20 energy to cast all 3 enchantments, and they all last a very long time. Once all are casted, you can heal 117hp every 2secs for only 5 energy using Dwayna's touch. Makes OoU very spammable, which was my goal. With this setup, Dwayna's touch is better than Heal area at 8 prayers, but comes at the cost of making you keep up enchantments for it to actually heal more. I don't mind that though, since I'll be spamming Fiends, botm, and OoU.

Shinigami God · Dec 17, 2006, 04:19 AM // 04:19

Carinae, I've seen you on these forums and I take you as the MM expert :P I myself find MMing to be my favorite thing to do in GW, and my build is almost exactly like yours. I, however, use vampiric horrors in place of signet of lost souls. With 2 sup runes, I have 360 health, meaning I lose 7.2 health per hit with OoU. Vampirics deal an (estimated) average of 30 damage per health, meaning 30 healing. Having 3 minion spells doesn't hurt either.

P.S. I've seen people all over the forum with your guild and unique avatars, any chance I could join? I'd love to help with GvG or whatever

Thorin · Dec 17, 2006, 08:27 AM // 08:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carinae

This further increases the gains from SR by another 50%, but it doubles the sacrifice of BotM. Be Careful!!!

Haha, I remember the first time I found out that BotM was doubled with 2 MMs. That didn't go too well.

LifeInfusion · Dec 22, 2006, 09:49 PM // 21:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cathode_Reborn

I go 16 Death, 14 Soul, 8 Wind prayers (sup Death + major Soul)

Order Of Undeath
Sig of lost souls
Animate bone fiend
Blood of the master
Dwayna's touch
Infuse condition
Faithful and Watchful Intervention

With this setup, Dwayna's touch is better than Heal area at 8 prayers, but comes at the cost of making you keep up enchantments for it to actually heal more. I don't mind that though, since I'll be spamming Fiends, botm, and OoU.

Um Heal area heals your minions too and in shatter enchantment/defile enchantments/desecrate enchantment mobs you don't want 3 enchantments.

And to OP, OoU warrants at least 1 superior rune and a major rune to decraese HP loss, at the very least. It might be wise to slap on some attunement runes if you have energy problems

Cathode_Reborn · Dec 23, 2006, 01:19 AM // 01:19

whoops, meant to put 12 soul reaping, not 14...

Anyways....yeah disenchant is sometimes a prob, but I usually stay far back and reapply if needed. I've never went N/Mo just cause the 10 energy cost of Heal area/breeze is ugly. N/D works fine for me.

I was thinking of putting Aura of the Lich on one of my heroes just to Mimicry off it. With a 20%enchanting mod, it'll last for a very long time. I imagine AotL+OoU being a godly combination

pingu666 · Dec 23, 2006, 07:29 PM // 19:29

be 0.5health a hit? :O, if u had say 440/220 health?

Puebert · Dec 27, 2006, 05:19 AM // 05:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carinae Dragonblood

Here is my main MM build. I've run this all over NF, and it provides all the flexiblity a MM will need.

[skill]Signet of Lost Souls[/skill] [skill]Order of Undeath[/skill] [skill]Animate Shambling Horror[/skill] [skill]Animate Bone Fiend[/skill] [skill]Blood of the Master[/skill] [skill]Heal Area[/skill] [skill]Dark Bond[/skill] [skill]Vengeance[/skill]

Blood: 4 (3+1)
Death: 16 (12+3+1)
S.Rep: 12 (9 + 3) <- double superiors
Healing: 9

Order of Undeath is very manageable, but you have to really pay attention to your health. Make sure that before you cast it, you have Dark Bond up and Heal Area recharged and ready to go. You don't always need Heal Area, but often you do.

Signet of Lost Souls is honestly more there for emergency energy management than healing and I rarely use it. Typicall, I have maxed energy and no energy issues at all.

I often chain BotM, OoU and after about 3 seconds Heal Area. You don't need to keep OoU up all the time, I like to use it at the start of battles, and occasionally during battles to break the back of a stubborn mob. Very rarely, in tougher battles, I spam OoU to keep killing as fast as I can, but be very very careful. (The Battle of Turai's Procession)

The trick to energy management for a MM is to abuse the minion cap. When a MM reaches 10 minions, the effect from Soul Reaping doubles. Use that.

Here's what I do:

I start off using a 20/20 Bone Spiral and Bortak's Bone Cesta. This gives me 42 energy with 4 pips of energy regen and an extra 20% HCT right when I need it most...at startup time (under 10 minions)

As soon as I hit 10 minions, I swap Bortak's for Konruu's Fervor. This gives me an extra 15 energy so now I'm upto 57 energy (not counting Morale Bonuses) with 3 pips of regen. The lost pip is dwarfed by the double gains from SR and you now have a larger, more efficient energy pool. You can raise two Fiends from scratch and still be able to throw 2 BotM in a pinch.

If, after a battle, you have dropped below 10 minions, swap back to Bortak's.

This is VERY good information!

However; I use [skill=text]Animate Vampiric Horror[/skill]rather than [skill=text]Animate Shambling Horror[/skill] because the Jagged Horror is not as strong as the Vamp Horror, and the Vamp Horrors will heal you. Scince Bone Fiends will be your main damage anyway, and they have a 5 second recharge, you won't have to wait long to cast it again.

Edit: Fixed a typo.

AuraofMana · Dec 28, 2006, 05:13 PM // 17:13

I took out Shambling (I leave bleeding to the Wars) and replaced with Taste of Death. Then I took out Vengeance to incorporate Rebirth. As for Heal Area, I am not finding much use of it, so atm I am using w/e I feel like atm - Taste of Pain is pretty good.
So that leaves me with 15 Soul Reaping again! Not having much health problems, just use your SOLS and TOP to heal. After 1 volley of fiends, you should have around 50% health and several targets should be below 50% (This is around Gate of Torment, got too lazy with Nec the last few months -.-). Use SOLS and TOP and your health should be back.
And as my friend always say, there are monks for a reason. Just give me an Orison here and there every 10 sec or so won't kill the other teammates that bad =P
And I am not using any Vigor Runes (got Vigor'd armor piece for PvP), so that leaves me with 330 HP, as I use Ghial because I haven't found other sets that much more useful. If you have a decent reflex in PvE (got Nightbringer to switch to in PvP), you should be done with animating a minion while the monsters are almost 50% done summoning.
With 10 Fiends and a Paragon hero or teammate, things drop like flies. I wonder if a Paragon support (for minions) and a OOU nec can be incorporated into one... hmmmmm.... where am I going to get andrenaline -.-

Carinae · Dec 28, 2006, 06:26 PM // 18:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by AuraofMana

Just give me an Orison here and there every 10 sec or so won't kill the other teammates that bad =P

Even a strong Healing Breeze counters OoU just fine. You're not locked into Heal Area by a longshot, but I prefer the additional minion healing of HA vs ANY other combination. That's the only reason to use HA, to have a secondary minion heal. Lots of skills are strong self-heals, but HA heals your babies also.

Another thing I want to mention is that in general MM's usually don't need to blindly max SR at the expense of other attributes. Too much SR is just waste, you cant harvest energy if you are at max energy, which means those points taken away from Healing....are being wasted.

I'm not directing that at Aura or anyone. But often I see people say they'd rather not put points in Healing so that SR is stronger, thinking that that means more energy. But it usually doesn't give you any more energy (if you play right) and it definately reduces your overall utility.

But...it's a game, play as you will.

Quote:

Originally Posted by AuraofMana

With 10 Fiends and a Paragon hero or teammate, things drop like flies. I wonder if a Paragon support (for minions) and a OOU nec can be incorporated into one... hmmmmm.... where am I going to get andrenaline -.-

When I feel especially cruel, I run two R/P Baragers with "Go For The Eyes" and "Stand Your Ground".

Grandmaster · Dec 28, 2006, 06:35 PM // 18:35

I personally run a pure necro

16 death
12 soul reaping
rest in blood

dark bond
order of undeath
shambling horrors
vampiric horror
bone fiend
taste of death
blood of the master
rez sig

works just fine, spam order of undeath and blood of the master and when health gets low, use taste of death. Energy is not an issue for me, plenty of stuff dies.

AuraofMana · Dec 29, 2006, 02:10 AM // 02:10

Yeah SR doesn't really help much with energy (the difference between 12 and 15 that is). Since I am trying to get a reasonable amount of low health, I run all Attune Runes and +3 SR, making it 15. I never found need for other skills in other attributes, so I don't run that.
Atm I am thinking up ways to incorporate a Support Paragon with a OOU MM for some extreme minion ownage. Adrenaline will always be a problem... seeing how I won't be attacking -.-
There is the signet that gains 1 strike of adren if under echo/chant, but that won't help much -.-
Anyway anyone got a good build for a minion/party support paragon? I haven't played nearly enough with my Paragon to know what's going on =P